fans of Brenda Leigh Johnson UNITE!

[lurkinghorror]

Our very own newsgroup to talk about our favorite Closer!

Open for business!

Yay!

[Russell Watson]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:38:25 -0700, lurkinghorror

Post by lurkinghorror
Our very own newsgroup to talk about our favorite Closer!
Open for business!
Yay!

I like the show despite it's having become utterly predictable as far
as the plots are concerned. I guess it's more of a "journey" than a
"destination" show.
I can't say I'm a fan of the main character that much: more of
"Flynn/Provenza Marvel Team-Up with Tao as a sidekick" kind of guy.
Those guys crack me up.
The whole Brenda/Fritz thing just seems..."off" to me, too. I just
don't buy them as a couple, even an oddly matched couple.

The ensemble could stand to be thinned out a bit with the removal of
Daniels, whose seldom-mentioned relationship with Gabriel seems to be
her primary raison d'etre as a character, and Sanchez, who had more to
do last week than the balance of the series put together. We don't
even get to see him mack on Daniels all the time like he used to.

I liked Cmdr. Taylor better when he was an asshole. He was a tough,
smart, if somewhat politcally wary character who had a beef with
Brenda over her being brought in over him and stealing some of his
people. They resolved the nature of their relationship far too quickly
into a cordial if not exactly cozy one for me. The first time he
helped her out I thought "Oh, he is setting her ass up now. She will
owe him big", but no, he was just being nice. I don't know if someone
got squeamish over the "black man bad/white woman good" dynamic (or
maybe "black character being vindictive about being passed over for a
white character") or what, but in removing him as her chief internal
conflict point they screwed him out of a lot of plot time and took
away a potentially intriguing element of the show. People tuning in
now would just assume he's a relatively minor character with whom she
never had much dealing.
As an adjunct to the above, the original uneasy Johnson/Taylor/Flynn
triangle was resolved too quickly, though Flynn is much more likeable
now than as he was as originally written. Again, a new viewer would
have no inkling of how they started out.

[LJ]

Post by Russell Watson
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:38:25 -0700, lurkinghorror

Post by lurkinghorror
Our very own newsgroup to talk about our favorite Closer!
Open for business!
Yay!

I like the show despite it's having become utterly predictable as far
as the plots are concerned. I guess it's more of a "journey" than a
"destination" show.
I can't say I'm a fan of the main character that much: more of
"Flynn/Provenza Marvel Team-Up with Tao as a sidekick" kind of guy.
Those guys crack me up.
The whole Brenda/Fritz thing just seems..."off" to me, too. I just
don't buy them as a couple, even an oddly matched couple.
The ensemble could stand to be thinned out a bit with the removal of
Daniels, whose seldom-mentioned relationship with Gabriel seems to be
her primary raison d'etre as a character, and Sanchez, who had more to
do last week than the balance of the series put together. We don't
even get to see him mack on Daniels all the time like he used to.
I liked Cmdr. Taylor better when he was an asshole. He was a tough,
smart, if somewhat politcally wary character who had a beef with
Brenda over her being brought in over him and stealing some of his
people. They resolved the nature of their relationship far too quickly
into a cordial if not exactly cozy one for me. The first time he
helped her out I thought "Oh, he is setting her ass up now. She will
owe him big", but no, he was just being nice. I don't know if someone
got squeamish over the "black man bad/white woman good" dynamic (or
maybe "black character being vindictive about being passed over for a
white character") or what, but in removing him as her chief internal
conflict point they screwed him out of a lot of plot time and took
away a potentially intriguing element of the show. People tuning in
now would just assume he's a relatively minor character with whom she
never had much dealing.
As an adjunct to the above, the original uneasy Johnson/Taylor/Flynn
triangle was resolved too quickly, though Flynn is much more likeable
now than as he was as originally written. Again, a new viewer would
have no inkling of how they started out.

I am a Brenda fan, but concede that Provenza/Flynn are top-notch with
Provenza capable of scene-stealing with one look.

I like Fritz, but would have liked Brenda's single status to be
explored....maybe with Flynn??? Kinda the love/hate thing. I just do not get
any vibs from Brenda & Pope though.

The Taylor v Johnson thing could not have continued. And the uneasy
"friendship" is dead-on now.

I like the large cast as each have their strength and can be featured when
the storyline calls. I especially like Brenda's mama and daddy.

This is the best acting on a television show at present.

[Dale Burroughs]

Post by LJ
I am a Brenda fan, but concede that Provenza/Flynn are top-notch with
Provenza capable of scene-stealing with one look.

I love it when they get into trouble together. And when Provenza has to
tell Flynn to "straighten up" Just when you start thinking that
Provenza is an oldtimer burn-out, he does something smart. They are a
great duo.

Post by LJ
I like Fritz, but would have liked Brenda's single status to be
explored....maybe with Flynn??? Kinda the love/hate thing. I just do not get
any vibs from Brenda & Pope though.

I can NOT ever see Flynn and Brenda having a moment. He is more
comfortable with her, and probably has a liking of her similar to the
rest of the crew, but I don't believe either of them could conceive of
ever having an intimate moment. JMO.

I can see where there may have been a past thing with Brenda and Pope,
but nowdays, it is kept pretty professional. Pope probably regrets
their parting of the ways more than Brenda.

Post by LJ
The Taylor v Johnson thing could not have continued. And the uneasy
"friendship" is dead-on now.

He got his promotion, and, like all the people on the show is a
professional. He can grudgingly admire her results, and work with her
professionally without really liking her.

Post by LJ
I like the large cast as each have their strength and can be featured when
the storyline calls.

It is one of the better utilizations of a large ensemble cast that I
have seen. It works almost as well as the cast of Firefly, IMO.

Post by LJ
I especially like Brenda's mama and daddy.

I loved that "Give me a hug. You DO hug, don't you? You have a cat."
"It's not my cat."
"It is now, son."

Post by LJ
This is the best acting on a television show at present.

That's my opinion. Of course, I also think that the past couple of
years has some of the best television ever. I saw somewhere, someone
called it the "Platinum Age of Television."

[lurkinghorror]

Post by LJ
This is the best acting on a television show at present.

I agree with all of this. Where Pope is concerned, did you see the way he
reacted on that videotape when he showed up frantic at the scene of the
shooting and was told she was okay? (Latest show) I loved the look on her
face when she watched that part.

That is something this show is good at, showing telling details. It
proves that good communication isn't always just vocal. The opening
scene with Brenda in the shrinks office, I LOL'd twice before there
were any actual spolen words.

[RalGrl]

Post by Russell Watson
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:38:25 -0700, lurkinghorror

Post by lurkinghorror
Our very own newsgroup to talk about our favorite Closer!
Open for business!
Yay!

I like the show despite it's having become utterly predictable as far
as the plots are concerned. I guess it's more of a "journey" than a
"destination" show.
I can't say I'm a fan of the main character that much: more of
"Flynn/Provenza Marvel Team-Up with Tao as a sidekick" kind of guy.
Those guys crack me up.

Provenza totally cracks me up. Didn't he start out imitating Brenda
when she wasn't around? "Thank yooooouuuuuuuuu, thank
yooooooooouuuuuuuuu veeeery muuuch". Wasn't it the at the crime scene
of the guy found dead in a pool (at night) that Brenda heard him do
that? And I think since then he does that now right in front of her.
Cracks me up!

I love the ensemble. Great show. You're right: it is predictable,
but I'm fine with that. Things like Sgt. Gabriel going over to
Brenda's house when she and Fritz were in Mexico to check on Kitty and
Kitty's kittens... that was cute. "No! That's not a little box!!!"
<fade scene>.

[Slayah]

Post by RalGrl
Provenza totally cracks me up. Didn't he start out imitating Brenda
when she wasn't around? "Thank yooooouuuuuuuuu, thank
yooooooooouuuuuuuuu veeeery muuuch". Wasn't it the at the crime scene
of the guy found dead in a pool (at night) that Brenda heard him do
that? And I think since then he does that now right in front of her.
Cracks me up!

Does Kyra Sedgewick really talk like that in real life?

[lurkinghorror]

Post by Slayah

Post by RalGrl
Provenza totally cracks me up. Didn't he start out imitating Brenda
when she wasn't around? "Thank yooooouuuuuuuuu, thank
yooooooooouuuuuuuuu veeeery muuuch". Wasn't it the at the crime scene
of the guy found dead in a pool (at night) that Brenda heard him do
that? And I think since then he does that now right in front of her.
Cracks me up!

Does Kyra Sedgewick really talk like that in real life?

She was born in New York City and is a graduate of USC, so I doubt it.
Her husband, Kevin Bacon directed this last episode.

[Tony Calguire]

Post by Slayah
Does Kyra Sedgewick really talk like that in real life?

NOBODY really talks like that!

[C.O.Jones]

Post by Tony Calguire

Post by Slayah
Does Kyra Sedgewick really talk like that in real life?

NOBODY really talks like that!

Never been to rural Georgia, huh?

[Russell Watson]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:06:40 -0000, Tony Calguire

Post by Tony Calguire

Post by Slayah
Does Kyra Sedgewick really talk like that in real life?

NOBODY really talks like that!

As a lifelong resident of northern Florida (about 10 miles south of
the FL-GA) line I beg to differ. Sedgewick's version of a Suthun
Belle's way of speaking might be a mild exaggeration, but only just.
The biggest problem with it is that as someone who has supposedly
lived and worked in several urban environments, including DC and LA,
it should have become less pronounced than if she had lived in/around
ATL all her life.

[Tony Calguire]

Post by Russell Watson

Post by Tony Calguire
NOBODY really talks like that!

As a lifelong resident of northern Florida (about 10 miles south of
the FL-GA) line I beg to differ. Sedgewick's version of a Suthun
Belle's way of speaking might be a mild exaggeration, but only just.
The biggest problem with it is that as someone who has supposedly
lived and worked in several urban environments, including DC and LA,
it should have become less pronounced than if she had lived in/around
ATL all her life.

I'll take you guys' word for it. I guess I figured Sedgewyk's accent was a
lot like Frances McDormand's "Marge Gunderson" character in the movie
"Fargo"-- over the top, to be sure, but "only just".

(BTW, most Minnesotans will claim that nobody really talks like Marge
Gunderson, but I don't agree.)

[jayembee]

Post by Tony Calguire
I'll take you guys' word for it. I guess I figured Sedgewyk's
accent was a lot like Frances McDormand's "Marge Gunderson"
character in the movie "Fargo"-- over the top, to be sure, but
"only just".
(BTW, most Minnesotans will claim that nobody really talks
like Marge Gunderson, but I don't agree.)

I don't agree, either. Most of my Minnesotan friends don't sound
like Marge, but I've heard people in that area who do. Similarly,
one of my biggest accent disconnects was when stopping along the
way during a drive through Western Ontario on the way to Winnipeg.
It really freaked me out to hear real people sounding just like
the McKenzie Brothers, because none of my Ontarian friends do,
and while a couple of my Manitoban friends have a strong accent,
it's not nearly as pronounced as the McKenzie Bros. accent.

People develop an unrealistic idea of how certain regional accents
sound. Some people, for example, seem to expect everyone from
Boston to sound like a Kennedy. I've lived in the Greater Boston
area for over 50 years, and I've never run into a single person
who sounds like a Kennedy (well, except for the one time I met
Ted Kennedy).

I also take issue with people who say that such-and-such an
accent sounds fake, that "nobody talks like that". Because while
regional accents do have commonalities, they are also affected
by the sound of each individual voice. While someone in the
Atlanta area might claim that no one in Atlanta sounds like
Brenda Leigh Johnson, I'd be willing to bet that there is at
least one person who does.

Several years ago, in another newsgroup, there was a discussion
of James Marsters' "Spike" accent. One person from Britain thought
it was a terrible accent, and that he'd never heard anyone from
Britain sound like that. Another person, also from Britain, said
that Spike sounded just like one of his neighbors.

-- jayembee

[lurkinghorror]

Post by jayembee

Post by Tony Calguire
I'll take you guys' word for it. I guess I figured Sedgewyk's
accent was a lot like Frances McDormand's "Marge Gunderson"
character in the movie "Fargo"-- over the top, to be sure, but
"only just".
(BTW, most Minnesotans will claim that nobody really talks
like Marge Gunderson, but I don't agree.)

I don't agree, either. Most of my Minnesotan friends don't sound
like Marge, but I've heard people in that area who do. Similarly,
one of my biggest accent disconnects was when stopping along the
way during a drive through Western Ontario on the way to Winnipeg.
It really freaked me out to hear real people sounding just like
the McKenzie Brothers, because none of my Ontarian friends do,
and while a couple of my Manitoban friends have a strong accent,
it's not nearly as pronounced as the McKenzie Bros. accent.
People develop an unrealistic idea of how certain regional accents
sound. Some people, for example, seem to expect everyone from
Boston to sound like a Kennedy. I've lived in the Greater Boston
area for over 50 years, and I've never run into a single person
who sounds like a Kennedy (well, except for the one time I met
Ted Kennedy).

Not so much unrealistic as exagerated. It also depends on who is
listening. In my birth part of the country, the midwest, it is often
said that ours is the most regional accent free. I believed this,
untill my first time away, anong "regular" people for over a year. When
I got back, I called my mother. And wondered who the hell this
hillbilly woman was that I was talking to.

Post by jayembee
I also take issue with people who say that such-and-such an
accent sounds fake, that "nobody talks like that". Because while
regional accents do have commonalities, they are also affected
by the sound of each individual voice. While someone in the
Atlanta area might claim that no one in Atlanta sounds like
Brenda Leigh Johnson, I'd be willing to bet that there is at
least one person who does.

I've found that in the cities (and they don't have to be that large)
that the accents tend to smooth out, whether it is due to the influx of
outsiders, TV or what. But step out of the city and walk into a small
town, or a country store, and you'll soon see that regional difference.

Post by jayembee
Several years ago, in another newsgroup, there was a discussion
of James Marsters' "Spike" accent. One person from Britain thought
it was a terrible accent, and that he'd never heard anyone from
Britain sound like that. Another person, also from Britain, said
that Spike sounded just like one of his neighbors.

The strangest time for me was when I was overseas, and had run into a
couple of British soldiers. They kept breaking up, laughing at MY
accent! Me, the boy from the midwest! "If only you guys could hear
yourselves through MY ears," I thought

[Kurt Ullman]

Post by lurkinghorror
Not so much unrealistic as exagerated. It also depends on who is
listening. In my birth part of the country, the midwest, it is often
said that ours is the most regional accent free. I believed this,
untill my first time away, anong "regular" people for over a year. When
I got back, I called my mother. And wondered who the hell this
hillbilly woman was that I was talking to.

I always got a kick when they say the midwest in accent free. Heck
there are probably at least 4 distinct accents in Indiana alone from the
Chicago-like (Da Bears) in Da Region to the beginnings of a Southern
accent amongst the people along the Ohio River.

[lurkinghorror]

In article

Post by Kurt Ullman

Post by lurkinghorror
Not so much unrealistic as exagerated. It also depends on who is
listening. In my birth part of the country, the midwest, it is often
said that ours is the most regional accent free. I believed this,
untill my first time away, anong "regular" people for over a year. When
I got back, I called my mother. And wondered who the hell this
hillbilly woman was that I was talking to.

I always got a kick when they say the midwest in accent free. Heck
there are probably at least 4 distinct accents in Indiana alone from the
Chicago-like (Da Bears) in Da Region to the beginnings of a Southern
accent amongst the people along the Ohio River.

We call that hillbilly, son!

[Kurt Ullman]

Post by lurkinghorror

Post by Kurt Ullman
I always got a kick when they say the midwest in accent free. Heck
there are probably at least 4 distinct accents in Indiana alone from the
Chicago-like (Da Bears) in Da Region to the beginnings of a Southern
accent amongst the people along the Ohio River.

We call that hillbilly, son!

Yeah, I know. I was trying to be politically correct. (G).

[lurkinghorror]

Post by Tony Calguire

Post by Russell Watson

Post by Tony Calguire
NOBODY really talks like that!

As a lifelong resident of northern Florida (about 10 miles south of
the FL-GA) line I beg to differ. Sedgewick's version of a Suthun
Belle's way of speaking might be a mild exaggeration, but only just.
The biggest problem with it is that as someone who has supposedly
lived and worked in several urban environments, including DC and LA,
it should have become less pronounced than if she had lived in/around
ATL all her life.

I'll take you guys' word for it. I guess I figured Sedgewyk's accent was a
lot like Frances McDormand's "Marge Gunderson" character in the movie
"Fargo"-- over the top, to be sure, but "only just".
(BTW, most Minnesotans will claim that nobody really talks like Marge
Gunderson, but I don't agree.)

Don'tcha know.

[lurkinghorror]

Post by RalGrl

Post by Russell Watson
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:38:25 -0700, lurkinghorror

Post by lurkinghorror
Our very own newsgroup to talk about our favorite Closer!
Open for business!
Yay!

I like the show despite it's having become utterly predictable as far
as the plots are concerned. I guess it's more of a "journey" than a
"destination" show.
I can't say I'm a fan of the main character that much: more of
"Flynn/Provenza Marvel Team-Up with Tao as a sidekick" kind of guy.
Those guys crack me up.

Provenza totally cracks me up. Didn't he start out imitating Brenda
when she wasn't around? "Thank yooooouuuuuuuuu, thank
yooooooooouuuuuuuuu veeeery muuuch".

Don't we all? ;-)

Post by RalGrl
Wasn't it the at the crime scene
of the guy found dead in a pool (at night) that Brenda heard him do
that?

Yes, that was, IIRC, the premier of the 3rd season

Post by RalGrl
And I think since then he does that now right in front of her.
Cracks me up!
I love the ensemble. Great show. You're right: it is predictable,
but I'm fine with that. Things like Sgt. Gabriel going over to
Brenda's house when she and Fritz were in Mexico to check on Kitty and
Kitty's kittens... that was cute. "No! That's not a little box!!!"
<fade scene>.

It shows that her team is a family. (Can I compare the feeling to the
family connection in Firefly again?)

[Russell Watson]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:49:29 -0700, lurkinghorror

Post by lurkinghorror

Post by RalGrl

Post by Russell Watson
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:38:25 -0700, lurkinghorror

Post by lurkinghorror
Our very own newsgroup to talk about our favorite Closer!
Open for business!
Yay!

I like the show despite it's having become utterly predictable as far
as the plots are concerned. I guess it's more of a "journey" than a
"destination" show.
I can't say I'm a fan of the main character that much: more of
"Flynn/Provenza Marvel Team-Up with Tao as a sidekick" kind of guy.
Those guys crack me up.

Provenza totally cracks me up. Didn't he start out imitating Brenda
when she wasn't around? "Thank yooooouuuuuuuuu, thank
yooooooooouuuuuuuuu veeeery muuuch".

Don't we all? ;-)

Post by RalGrl
Wasn't it the at the crime scene
of the guy found dead in a pool (at night) that Brenda heard him do
that?

Yes, that was, IIRC, the premier of the 3rd season

Post by RalGrl
And I think since then he does that now right in front of her.
Cracks me up!
I love the ensemble. Great show. You're right: it is predictable,
but I'm fine with that. Things like Sgt. Gabriel going over to
Brenda's house when she and Fritz were in Mexico to check on Kitty and
Kitty's kittens... that was cute. "No! That's not a little box!!!"
<fade scene>.

It shows that her team is a family. (Can I compare the feeling to the
family connection in Firefly again?)

Ok, one more damn time, but next time you better come up with another
comparison! <G>

All jokes aside, when it comes to doing comparos of ensemble casts
"Firefly" is probably the show to match or beat. Only makes its
premature demise that much harder to take, even after the time that
has passed. What's it been: going on 5 years already?
I used to beg people I knew to watch that show. I would tell people
that even if they didn't like sci-fi that was fine because it was
really a western set in outer space, and if they didn't like westerns
that was OK too because it was also quite humorous at times, and if
they didn't like comedy but were into character driven stuff then if
they watched just one ep and didn't love all the characters and how
they interacted they were too fuckin' stupid to watch TV anyway.
Hmmm ...seeing written down like that kinda shows me why I might not
have gotten as many on board as I would have liked...

[Russell Watson]

Post by RalGrl

Post by Russell Watson
On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:38:25 -0700, lurkinghorror

Post by lurkinghorror
Our very own newsgroup to talk about our favorite Closer!
Open for business!
Yay!

I like the show despite it's having become utterly predictable as far
as the plots are concerned. I guess it's more of a "journey" than a
"destination" show.
I can't say I'm a fan of the main character that much: more of
"Flynn/Provenza Marvel Team-Up with Tao as a sidekick" kind of guy.
Those guys crack me up.

Provenza totally cracks me up. Didn't he start out imitating Brenda
when she wasn't around? "Thank yooooouuuuuuuuu, thank
yooooooooouuuuuuuuu veeeery muuuch". Wasn't it the at the crime scene
of the guy found dead in a pool (at night) that Brenda heard him do
that? And I think since then he does that now right in front of her.
Cracks me up!

Yep, he's just close enough to retirement to not have to care TOO much
if he makes her mad. I was scared crapless on the premier for this
season that they were setting the stage to write him out of the show.
I still haven't figured out if Brenda is supposed to know that Gabriel
is the one who gave Pope the idea for how to beat the budget crunch.
That it didn't get thrown up to her when she suspended him is a credit
to how the character is written, and also to Taylor's, since he was
the one who investigated the case and recommended the suspension,
especially since he is always trying to lure Gabriel to his team.

Post by RalGrl
I love the ensemble. Great show. You're right: it is predictable,
but I'm fine with that. Things like Sgt. Gabriel going over to
Brenda's house when she and Fritz were in Mexico to check on Kitty and
Kitty's kittens... that was cute. "No! That's not a little box!!!"
<fade scene>.

Yep, that was good stuff. I don't dislike any of the characters, but
with only 13 eps per "season" and that many people there are a couple
who are consistently relegated to very minor roles in the overall
scheme of things. While Daniels and Sanchez certainly don't hurt
anything by being there, if the characters had never been on there I
don't think anyone would have a "there's something missing here"
feeling about it either.

[Kurt Ullman]

Post by Russell Watson
I still haven't figured out if Brenda is supposed to know that Gabriel
is the one who gave Pope the idea for how to beat the budget crunch.

She knows. That was established a couple of episodes ago and why she
has been giving him the cold shoulder for the last couple. She seems to
have gotten over it with the last one.

Post by Russell Watson
Yep, that was good stuff. I don't dislike any of the characters, but
with only 13 eps per "season" and that many people there are a couple
who are consistently relegated to very minor roles in the overall
scheme of things. While Daniels and Sanchez certainly don't hurt
anything by being there, if the characters had never been on there I
don't think anyone would have a "there's something missing here"
feeling about it either.

Personally, I think there is a need for the bodies to give the team
heft since it is supposed to be a big city department with a priority to
get things done. In this case you can't have just window dressing extras
floating around that don't get involved with the team.

[lurkinghorror]

In article

Post by Kurt Ullman

Post by Russell Watson
Yep, that was good stuff. I don't dislike any of the characters, but
with only 13 eps per "season" and that many people there are a couple
who are consistently relegated to very minor roles in the overall
scheme of things. While Daniels and Sanchez certainly don't hurt
anything by being there, if the characters had never been on there I
don't think anyone would have a "there's something missing here"
feeling about it either.

Personally, I think there is a need for the bodies to give the team
heft since it is supposed to be a big city department with a priority to
get things done. In this case you can't have just window dressing extras
floating around that don't get involved with the team.

Last episode, I saw somebody in the background, typing, and I said to
myself, "Who in the Hell was that?" I guess, even with that large cast,
they still need filler. Or else that was a fill in for someone (don't
remember who) that was off getting some kind of training.